72 replies to this topic

[3rd party JKor]

What size elements are people using in their HLT and BK? How's the heating time? Would you get something else if you did it over again?Ooops, wrong forum. Mods?

Edited by JKoravos, 27 September 2009 - 05:12 PM.

[dondewey]

Mine are only 3500W, I think, and it's plenty for 10 gal. batches - I can easily be boiling befor the sparge has finished.

[3rd party JKor]

Mine are only 3500W, I think, and it's plenty for 10 gal. batches - I can easily be boiling befor the sparge has finished.

How long does it take to heat your strike water? Do you have it in a cooler or a pot?

[djinkc]

4500 watt extra low density in the kettle. You will need to be able to throttle it down some if you're using a sanke. I'm using a ~19" diameter 20 gal kettle that doesn't need temp control. Regular old cheap 4500 watt in the EHLT (sanke) - it takes 30 - 45 minutes to hit strike temps depending on the season. There's a great spreadsheet out there that I don't have bookmarked on this computer - gives pretty accurate numbers for heating time etc.

Edited by dj in kc, 27 September 2009 - 06:47 PM.

[3rd party JKor]

Is your Sanke EHLT insulated?

[BrewerGeorge]

4500W ultra low density element. I've been using the same one for about 4 years. In a sanke, it does best when throttled, but you can get away without a throttle if you're willing to accept a 2 gal/hr boiloff rate.

[3rd party JKor]

What are you throttling with? Stove control?

[BrewerGeorge]

What are you throttling with? Stove control?

Ah, ha... I use a controller made from Christmas lightsI again have to rely on the Wayback Machine (sorry, no pics)(Link)

[djinkc]

Is your Sanke EHLT insulated?

Yeah, the off the shelf Al bubble wrapspreadsheethttps://suburb.semo....ectric Heat.xls

[stangbat]

Same as DJ here. HLT is a keg insulated with bubble wrap. Times vary within the ranges he quoted depending on the temp of the source water.The warm up time for the HLT is fine because it lets me get other things ready while waiting. 4500 watts has no problem getting sparge water heated during the mash. Once the element in the kettle gets covered I start heating the wort and I can have it boiling when the sparge is done.As for changes, sometimes I get low on water during the sparge and have to add a little more and heat it. What I often do is I let water trickle into the HLT at about the same rate as I'm using the water for sparing. The element can usually keep up and maintain the temp if I don't let the cold water in too fast. A little more power might help in this situation but I don't consider it a big enough problem to change anything.And as George and DJ said, I have to throttle back the element in the boil keggle. Full power is a bit too much. I have no insulation on the keggle.Edit: The main change I'd make if doing it over again is mount the element in the HLT lower. It may involve bending the element's wires apart a little bit to allow the dip tube to go in between. Right now the element is out of the water when I have less than 4.25 gallons in the HLT.

Edited by stangbat, 28 September 2009 - 06:39 AM.

[3rd party JKor]

Ah, ha... I use a controller made from Christmas lightsI again have to rely on the Wayback Machine (sorry, no pics)(Link)

That's a clever idea. Do you feel like you're limited by only having 50-75-100 for power levels? Do you think finer control would be beneficial, or just extra work for a small gain?I'm thinking about using a repeat-cycle relay. McMaster has them for about $30 (P/N 7457K66). When you apply power to the relay it continuously cycles the output until you remove power from the relay. Using external pots you can continuously vary the length of both the ON and OFF cycle. They offer a few time ranges, it's a 20:1 ratio from the longest interval to the shortest interval. For example you can get cycle time ranges from 0.05 to 1 second up to 30 to 600 seconds.If you get a linear pot and connect the ON TIME and OFF TIME terminals to either side of the wiper, you could use the pot to continuously vary the power output of the element from 5% to 95%.Here's the spec sheet for the cycle relay that McMaster stocks: LINK

[BrewerGeorge]

That's a clever idea. Do you feel like you're limited by only having 50-75-100 for power levels? Do you think finer control would be beneficial, or just extra work for a small gain?...

I'm happy with it. In fact, I rarely use the 50%. 100% to heat sparge water, or to bring the wort up to boiling. 75% maintains the boil nicely at 1.5 gal/hr evap rate. I actually think the discreet levels are better than continuously variable. With a variable control the amount of power you apply will be different every time (unless you're at 100%) which would make boil-off rate less predictable.

[3rd party JKor]

I'm happy with it. In fact, I rarely use the 50%. 100% to heat sparge water, or to bring the wort up to boiling. 75% maintains the boil nicely at 1.5 gal/hr evap rate. I actually think the discreet levels are better than continuously variable. With a variable control the amount of power you apply will be different every time (unless you're at 100%) which would make boil-off rate less predictable.

Well, I'd set it the same every time. The benefit is just that I can dial in whatever boil-off rate to start out with. Maybe 60% would work best for my system. Once I get it dialed in I just have to mark the pot location and set it there once I get to a boil.I already have the cycle relay from another project I was working on, so it'll be easy to give it a shot. I pretty much have everything I need except for the element. I think I'm going to pick up a 240V 5500W low density element. I have to add a 240V/30A circuit to my basement in any case, so I might as well use the power that's available.

[djinkc]

Well, I'd set it the same every time. The benefit is just that I can dial in whatever boil-off rate to start out with. Maybe 60% would work best for my system. Once I get it dialed in I just have to mark the pot location and set it there once I get to a boil.I already have the cycle relay from another project I was working on, so it'll be easy to give it a shot. I pretty much have everything I need except for the element. I think I'm going to pick up a 240V 5500W low density element. I have to add a 240V/30A circuit to my basement in any case, so I might as well use the power that's available.

I'd spend the extra few bucks for the extra low density. I had buildup on the low density that concerned me - the extra low density still gets a tiny bit you can't tell when I brew a Kolsch.The Christmas light controller worked great for me but finally died. I'm running full tilt on the boil and letting a Ranco fire the SSR for the EHLT. Works fine so far. I'll probably pick up another controller after the Holidays when they are giving them away. I'm familiar enough with my setup now that I really don't need to tone down the boil anymore. A 30 amp circuit would really push a 5500 watt element. There have been times I would like to have it instead but that might produce some carmelize stuff in the kettle - just don't know. If/when I get rid of the hot tub I can use that 50 amp circuit and beef things up a little.

[3rd party JKor]

I'd spend the extra few bucks for the extra low density. I had buildup on the low density that concerned me - the extra low density still gets a tiny bit you can't tell when I brew a Kolsch.The Christmas light controller worked great for me but finally died. I'm running full tilt on the boil and letting a Ranco fire the SSR for the EHLT. Works fine so far. I'll probably pick up another controller after the Holidays when they are giving them away. I'm familiar enough with my setup now that I really don't need to tone down the boil anymore. A 30 amp circuit would really push a 5500 watt element. There have been times I would like to have it instead but that might produce some carmelize stuff in the kettle - just don't know. If/when I get rid of the hot tub I can use that 50 amp circuit and beef things up a little.

I think the one I'm looking at is ultra low watt density. It's a wavy looking thing.

[djinkc]

I think the one I'm looking at is ultra low watt density. It's a wavy looking thing.

That's it. If I were redoing mine I would get a SS or Al locknut to secure it (have that in the EHLT). Mine has a coupling welded to the kettle so I'm locked in on position and I have to wait for the element to be covered to start heating. With the nut I could start heating earlier with the element positioned better. Not that big of a deal with my system but if you're batch sparging it would slow you down a little.I'm guessing you don't need a lecture on redundant grounding, GFIC etc., but have to bring it up. Don't want to see anybody get fried........

[dondewey]

Here is a cheap, industrial-strength control method with gobs of control:Honeywell Controller on ebaySolid State Relay, not on/off, but variable with the above controllerI'm using two controllers - one controls the HLT, and the other I just set the percentage for the boil kettle (depends on batch size, wind, and ambient temp). The controllers usually have an alarm or event settings - I'm using one on my kettle controller to trigger a cooling fan on my relays if the temp exceeds 80F.

[3rd party JKor]

That's it. If I were redoing mine I would get a SS or Al locknut to secure it (have that in the EHLT). Mine has a coupling welded to the kettle so I'm locked in on position and I have to wait for the element to be covered to start heating. With the nut I could start heating earlier with the element positioned better. Not that big of a deal with my system but if you're batch sparging it would slow you down a little.I'm guessing you don't need a lecture on redundant grounding, GFIC etc., but have to bring it up. Don't want to see anybody get fried........

Yes, I'm going to use a locknut. I'm curious how difficult it will be to get the element into the side of the kettle without any type of fitting.Redundant grounding is a hobby of mine.

[BrewerGeorge]

Yes, I'm going to use a locknut. I'm curious how difficult it will be to get the element into the side of the kettle without any type of fitting.Redundant grounding is a hobby of mine.

Put the nut on the inside and use the gasket that is supplied with the element on the outside. I also pounded a flat place in the keg with a rubber mallet before drilling the hole so there would be a flat surface to mate with.

[3rd party JKor]

I was just concerned how good of a seal I'll get on the curved surface. Flattening a section is a good idea. I think that would work much better with a thin SS kettle, though. I have a thick walled aluminum kettle.