22 replies to this topic

[Jimmy James]

Greetings. SWMBO has a new fav and wants me to brew it up. Stone labels this brew as either Cali-Belgique or Cali-Belgie (depending on the case) and has released it a few times over the past year or so. It tends to go fast around here, hence my marching orders to brew up something darn close. For those who haven't had it, Stone claims on the bottle it is their IPA only fermented with a Belgian yeast strain. I don't buy that explanation entirely since it seems to me significantly lighter in color than Stone IPA. It finishes dry and is basically what it is advertised as being - a West-Coast IPA fermented with a Belgian yeast strain. Attenuation is high. Color is pale/golden. Head is fairly persistent and easily rousted, but not as thick as many Belgian ales. Yeast character is obviously Belgian but somewhat clean compared to some - more spicy than fruity to me. On to the clone attempt. I am not good at this - usually I take inspiration from recipes and put my own twist on them. For this one I'd like to come as close as possible. Grist: I am thinking 2-row like Great Western as the base. Maybe a touch of wheat. About 10% light crystal malt 20 - 30L or dark (30L) MunichHops: Columbus and Centennial perhaps? Hard to say as I'm not used to picking out strong levels of American hops in a Belgian type ale. Yeast: I am betting that Stone uses one of White Labs Belgian strains - I'd guess either WLP510 (Bastogne) or 550 (Belgian Ale) as those seem to fit the flavor profile - but then again this is a somewhat unique brew from Stone and I could be way off base here. Would love any input from the board here. I plan to brew this up in a month or so and have time to put this recipe together. My first stab at it (note that I don't expect to get as many IBU as Promash expects based on experience):Cali-BelgieA ProMash Recipe ReportRecipe Specifics----------------Batch Size (Gal): 10.00 Wort Size (Gal): 10.00Total Grain (Lbs): 24.00Anticipated OG: 1.065 Plato: 15.82Anticipated SRM: 7.2Anticipated IBU: 71.3Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %Wort Boil Time: 60 MinutesGrain/Extract/Sugar % Amount Name Origin Potential SRM----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 87.5 21.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 2 8.3 2.00 lbs. Munich Malt(dark) Canada 1.034 30 4.2 1.00 lbs. Wheat Malt America 1.038 2Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.Hops Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2.00 oz. Columbus Whole 15.00 62.6 60 min. 2.00 oz. Centennial Whole 10.50 8.8 10 min.Yeast-----White Labs WLP550 Belgian Ale

[earthtone]

Looks good man, never tried the Cali-Belgique but it looks like it'll be tasty. I'm going to be doing something similar - an all munich malt with simcoe and wyeast 1214 belgian ale.Do you know that there are only two hop additions or is that just a guess?

[Jimmy James]

Hey bro, saw your thread and was thinking the same thing, I didn't really have anything to add to your recipe but will stay tuned for the updates. The one thing I am most iffy on is the hops and schedule for this clone attempt. That and the fact that I never really attempt clones. After reading some Mosher last night I was starting to think maybe high-alpha hops wouldn't be the best. I need to sit down with a Cali-Belgique and really think about the hops. I think if anything it may just be 60 and 30 min hop additions so the hop aromas don't conflict with the Belgian yeast aromas. Getting into the head of the guy who originally developed this beer I am thinking maybe one thing they didn't want was garbled, conflicting flavors/aromas which would be a risk combining Old World with New. Anyways, thanks for asking, you got me thinking.

Looks good man, never tried the Cali-Belgique but it looks like it'll be tasty. I'm going to be doing something similar - an all munich malt with simcoe and wyeast 1214 belgian ale.Do you know that there are only two hop additions or is that just a guess?

[cavman]

Hey bro, saw your thread and was thinking the same thing, I didn't really have anything to add to your recipe but will stay tuned for the updates. The one thing I am most iffy on is the hops and schedule for this clone attempt. That and the fact that I never really attempt clones. After reading some Mosher last night I was starting to think maybe high-alpha hops wouldn't be the best. I need to sit down with a Cali-Belgique and really think about the hops. I think if anything it may just be 60 and 30 min hop additions so the hop aromas don't conflict with the Belgian yeast aromas. Getting into the head of the guy who originally developed this beer I am thinking maybe one thing they didn't want was garbled, conflicting flavors/aromas which would be a risk combining Old World with New. Anyways, thanks for asking, you got me thinking.

https://www.stonebre.../cali/index.phpThat should help with the hops.

[MoreAmmoPlz]

If it's just Stone IPA then here is the information that I have saved from another forum where someone wrote into Stone for a recipe and they sent him a form letter with the basic ingredients of each beer.

Stone IPA
2-row pale malt
C-15 crystal malt
Magnum, Centennial and Chinook hops
Finishing ABV=6.9%; IBU’s=77

Edit: I see that the hops don't match up well with what is on the website but maybe the grain bill will get you close.

Edited by OprFilth, 28 April 2009 - 06:15 AM.

[cavman]

If it's just Stone IPA then here is the information that I have saved from another forum where someone wrote into Stone for a recipe and they sent him a form letter with the basic ingredients of each beer.

Stone IPA
2-row pale malt
C-15 crystal malt
Magnum, Centennial and Chinook hops
Finishing ABV=6.9%; IBU’s=77

Edit: I see that the hops don't match up well with what is on the website but maybe the grain bill will get you close.

Actually the magnum in place of columbus if used in bittering only wouldn't be a huge change, although magnum is a "cleaner" bittering hop. Both would work.

[EWW]

FWIW I remember hearing that stone uses WLP510 on their Belgians.

[Jimmy James]

Thanks guys for posting the info linked on Stone's site. I also read on their blog that Cali-Begique was an experiment when they scaled up the yeast for the Vertical Epic last year by fermenting a batch of IPA with it. The homebrew recipe they posted for the Vertical Epic lists WLP570 - the Duvel (I think) strain. I may still split the batch and ferment half with 510, to see which I like better. I think the hops are Columbus, Cents and then definitely Chinooks dry. My only thought now is if I want to use the light crystal or maybe some light Munich mixed in. I had a Cali-Belgique last night and it tastes more like light crystal or at least it did last night. I am going to brew this sometime in the next month. Thanks again for the help.

[Jimmy James]

I finally brewed this one after some delays due to travel and other beer projects getting in the way. Based on the feedback from Opr, Cavman and ewanzel as well as Stone's website and blog, I adjusted the recipe. I had to sub Cascade for Columbus for the bittering hops based on what I have. I also brewed this to a slightly lower OG since we want this to be a more everday beer around the house and I think the homebrew version at a little lower OG will still have plenty of flavor, body and richness. OG: 1.055 IBU: 73.2Grist: American 2-row 96%Crystal 20L 4%Hops: Cascade 60 min, 63.9 IBUCentennial 30 min, 9.3 IBUChinook, whirlpool, 0 IBUYeast: WLP510 Bastogne Ale. I went with this despite the info on Stone's blog indicating WLP570 for the Vertical Epic homebrew recipe (for which the 1st batch of Cali-Belgique was used to scale up the brewery yeast). I have been using 510 lately and it's a freaking awesome yeast in my hands so far, whereas I have had mixed results with 570. So, we'll see how this turns out. I am not doing any dry hops as I lately have been getting more out of my hops by adding after flameout and leaving them in for the whirlpool, then squeezing the hop bag into the wort after chilling. Maybe that will turn out to be a mistake, but I'll find out in a few weeks when I can pour one of these and post up some pics and side-by-side tasting notes. I am guessing this will be a similar beer and in the ballpark but that I will be able to pinpoint some changes to get the next version closer.

[ncbeerbrewer]

I finally brewed this one after some delays due to travel and other beer projects getting in the way. Based on the feedback from Opr, Cavman and ewanzel as well as Stone's website and blog, I adjusted the recipe. I had to sub Cascade for Columbus for the bittering hops based on what I have. I also brewed this to a slightly lower OG since we want this to be a more everday beer around the house and I think the homebrew version at a little lower OG will still have plenty of flavor, body and richness. OG: 1.055 IBU: 73.2 Grist: American 2-row 96% Crystal 20L 4% Hops: Cascade 60 min, 63.9 IBU Centennial 30 min, 9.3 IBU Chinook, whirlpool, 0 IBU Yeast: WLP510 Bastogne Ale. I went with this despite the info on Stone's blog indicating WLP570 for the Vertical Epic homebrew recipe (for which the 1st batch of Cali-Belgique was used to scale up the brewery yeast). I have been using 510 lately and it's a freaking awesome yeast in my hands so far, whereas I have had mixed results with 570. So, we'll see how this turns out. I am not doing any dry hops as I lately have been getting more out of my hops by adding after flameout and leaving them in for the whirlpool, then squeezing the hop bag into the wort after chilling. Maybe that will turn out to be a mistake, but I'll find out in a few weeks when I can pour one of these and post up some pics and side-by-side tasting notes. I am guessing this will be a similar beer and in the ballpark but that I will be able to pinpoint some changes to get the next version closer.

Looks good. Your grain bill is simpler than I ended up in my Belg IPA too. I ended up with Pils, Munich, Aromatic, and Caramunich. I used 3522 Ardens. What fermentation temp did you use? Look forward to hearing and seeing the pics as well. I like how mine turned out and I need to try the Cali Belg if i can ever find it as well. Nice Job JJ

[Jimmy James]

Looks good. Your grain bill is simpler than I ended up in my Belg IPA too. I ended up with Pils, Munich, Aromatic, and Caramunich. I used 3522 Ardens. What fermentation temp did you use? Look forward to hearing and seeing the pics as well. I like how mine turned out and I need to try the Cali Belg if i can ever find it as well. Nice Job JJ

I started fermentation in the high 60s and it's probably right around 70 or a touch higher at this point. My house stays right in the high 60s, low 70s with the weather here in San Diego - lots of June Gloom this year. It's supposed to start warming up this week, so I may let it just rise up as it finishes off. I don't want to let this one get too hot though, I'll probably throw it in the swamp cooler if it looks like it's going to get warmer than 74. If this one turns out maybe I can throw a bottle in the mail your way to see what you think.

[ncbeerbrewer]

I started fermentation in the high 60s and it's probably right around 70 or a touch higher at this point. My house stays right in the high 60s, low 70s with the weather here in San Diego - lots of June Gloom this year. It's supposed to start warming up this week, so I may let it just rise up as it finishes off. I don't want to let this one get too hot though, I'll probably throw it in the swamp cooler if it looks like it's going to get warmer than 74. If this one turns out maybe I can throw a bottle in the mail your way to see what you think.

Fermentation temperature sounds good to me. You are lucky that your house stays at that temp. It gets so hot and humid over here its hard to keep the house below 80 degrees. I guess thats why I went the freezer/controller route too. I brewed mine at 68 degrees constant. I am thinking I will remake this one and kick he temperature up around 70 72 as well. I have been drinking it and really enjoying mine so far. I will bottle up a few and if you wanna do a swap I would be down for that just let me know when yours is ready too.

[Jimmy James]

I thought I should update this. In short, it was a good attempt, but needs some tweaks. I will post the next version too for any one interested. The version below comes out lighter (lower OG) and the hops and yeast character are not spot on, but they are in the ballpark. When I brew this again NC in case you're still reading I will save a couple bottles to send your way - unfortunately this one didn't last and we had a couple parties etc and next thing I know I am down to my last bottle! 96% Pale Malt4% Crystal 20LCascade, 60 min, 64 IBUCentennial, 10 min, 9.3 IBUChinook, flamout/whirlpool, 2 ozYeast WLP 510 Bastogne Ale slurryI brewed this to 1.055 and calculated 6.3% ABV in Promash. I wanted it a little lighter so I could have a couple, and it was for the wife primarily and she likes them more approachable. I would boost OG to high 60s and use some Columbus hops perhaps. The Chinooks at flameout worked nicely. The Bastogne Ale yeast was close, but I think next time I will go with the Duvel strain (WLP 570) and see how that works. I would also boost the crystal 20 to maybe 6% of the grist. So, my next recipe will likely be:94% Pale Malt6% Crystal 20LCentennial 60 min (~ 65 IBU)Columbus 15 min (~ 10 IBU)Chinook 2 min (few IBU)Chinook whirlpool (0 IBU)WLP 570Going to brew it soon and see how it turns out....

[cavman]

I thought I should update this. In short, it was a good attempt, but needs some tweaks. I will post the next version too for any one interested. The version below comes out lighter (lower OG) and the hops and yeast character are not spot on, but they are in the ballpark. When I brew this again NC in case you're still reading I will save a couple bottles to send your way - unfortunately this one didn't last and we had a couple parties etc and next thing I know I am down to my last bottle! 96% Pale Malt 4% Crystal 20L Cascade, 60 min, 64 IBU Centennial, 10 min, 9.3 IBU Chinook, flamout/whirlpool, 2 oz Yeast WLP 510 Bastogne Ale slurry I brewed this to 1.055 and calculated 6.3% ABV in Promash. I wanted it a little lighter so I could have a couple, and it was for the wife primarily and she likes them more approachable. I would boost OG to high 60s and use some Columbus hops perhaps. The Chinooks at flameout worked nicely. The Bastogne Ale yeast was close, but I think next time I will go with the Duvel strain (WLP 570) and see how that works. I would also boost the crystal 20 to maybe 6% of the grist. So, my next recipe will likely be: 94% Pale Malt 6% Crystal 20L Centennial 60 min (~ 65 IBU) Columbus 15 min (~ 10 IBU) Chinook 2 min (few IBU) Chinook whirlpool (0 IBU) WLP 570 Going to brew it soon and see how it turns out....

I'll talk to Greg Koch and see what hell give me on yeast and hops, can't promise anything though.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Could a Belgian yeast version of all of the Pale Ales work? Like a Belgian APA, Belgian American Amber, Belgian AIPA. How about Belgian versions of English bitters? I like Belgian yeasts but sometimes Belgian beers don't really have enough hops in them for me.

[siouxbrewer]

Could a Belgian yeast version of all of the Pale Ales work? Like a Belgian APA, Belgian American Amber, Belgian AIPA. How about Belgian versions of English bitters? I like Belgian yeasts but sometimes Belgian beers don't really have enough hops in them for me.

My last few beers have been in the Belgian/British bastard category simply because I love 510 bastogne so much and wanted to incorporate the flavors into my british session beers. There are similarities in the styles and the end results are deliciously drinkable. My last beer was an IPA, Baird's MO malt, some melanoidin and aromatic, about a handful of chocolate and special dark crystal - nothing too crazy. I used Bravo for bittering, then hit it with a ton of styrian goldings and saaz for the late additions. Fermented with WLP510 at about 64F. I was surprised by the balance, not too estery, not phenolic, nice spice and the saaz hops are right on the money. I say try incorporating some belgian yeast into your session beers and see if you like the results.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Didn't someone make a belgian version of MLPA? I can't remember if they ever posted the results...

[Jimmy James]

That would be awesome cav if you could get any info. Especially on the hops. Regarding the 510 Bastogne, I think it was maybe too clean of a profile for this beer. Cali-Belgique has some "Belgian" character. My attempt also did, but not quite as much. That's why I am thinking the 570 is the way to go, which is what was alluded to from Stone's website anyways - I just used the 510 as I had a huge slurry of it on hand from another brew. One thing I can say about this brew was that the late Chinook addition worked beautifully. I am convinced on the late Chinooks as being the way to go.

I'll talk to Greg Koch and see what hell give me on yeast and hops, can't promise anything though.

[ncbeerbrewer]

[quote name='Jimmy James' date='29 September 2009 - 01:24 PM' timestamp='1254245072' post='175590']
I thought I should update this. In short, it was a good attempt, but needs some tweaks. I will post the next version too for any one interested. The version below comes out lighter (lower OG) and the hops and yeast character are not spot on, but they are in the ballpark. When I brew this again NC in case you're still reading I will save a couple bottles to send your way - unfortunately this one didn't last and we had a couple parties etc and next thing I know I am down to my last bottle!

Thanks JJ. I would love that. I brewed my Belg IPA and it turned out great. Took it to my buddy's wedding and got rave reviews. I plan to brew mine again too. I would be sure to send you a few as well. Look forward to it!!

[quote name='zymological' date='30 September 2009 - 09:45 AM' timestamp='1254318343' post='176449']
Didn't someone make a belgian version of MLPA? I can't remember if they ever posted the results...
[/quote]

I believe that was Badogg. I think he pitched a Belgian yeast into 5 gallons of MLPA I remember reading a couple of months back.