12 replies to this topic

[jayb151]

Hey all,I had a question regarding “doubling” a batch. I want to brew this weekend, but my brew partner is going out of town. I really just need him for the lifting because I run 10 gal batches, which I’m not comfortable lifting on my own. Here’s the question. Can I make a 5 gal batch and just cut it in half with water? I would target somewhere between 1.070 – 1.080 and about 80 IBUs. what I’m thinking is I can add 5 gals of water and still make a bitter at about 1.035 -1.040 with about 35 IBUs. I know the IBUs will be a bigger problem than the gravity.What do you guys think? And can anyone give me some advice on making this happen?Thanks, JayBEdit: Forgot to say it's All Grain!

[3rd party JKor]

Maybe you should just go to the gym instead of brewing, ya nancy! :rolf:jk, I think it should work.

[BrewerGeorge]

It will work perfectly fine. I've done similar - doubling three gallons to six - several times with no problems at all. It's just a partial boil like with extract. No reason to limit your final beer to 1.035-40 either. The only "hard" limit you have to work with is the solubility of IBU's. You can't get more than 100 IBU's dissolved in the concentrated wort, so it can't be greater than 50 IBU after you dilute it.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

Interesting.What would be the pros and cons of adding filtered water pre or post fermentation?

[3rd party JKor]

Interesting.What would be the pros and cons of adding filtered water pre or post fermentation?

I think George hit on the main process con, which is the limit of hop utilization. I'd guess there are probably other cons with diluting a beer significantly, since everything in there is being diluted. When I worked at the AB brewery up in NH, they were diluting 2:1 beer to water. That may be a good place to start if you want to try it. They've probably done a lot of research to make that determination.I have to admit that I've thought about it. Getting 15 gallons out of a 10 gallon batch is pretty appealing. For something like a lower gravity pale ale, bitter, et al, it's a good way to bump your capacity (or increase your volume produced/time spent brewing, which is even more valuable for me). This thread has me thinking about it again. Maybe I'll do a bitter or 60/- with a 1/3 dilution later this winter.

[jayb151]

I think George hit on the main process con, which is the limit of hop utilization.This thread has me thinking about it again. Maybe I'll do a bitter or 60/- with a 1/3 dilution later this winter.

Thanks Guys! Sounds like I'm knocking out some Bitter this weekend! Do you guys also think that IBUs are a direct dilution like gravity? Like if I add 5 gal wort and 5 gal water, I'll get exactly 50% of my anticipated IBUs from the 5 gal boil? EX: 5 gal target of 80 IBUs becomes 40 after dilution to 10 gals?

[Patrick C.]

Yes, as long as you don't try to go above the solubility limit like George mentioned- basically, the most you can have in your high gravity batch is 100 IBU. The other thing to keep in mind is the lower efficiency that you typically get with high gravity batches. You are sparging with less water, so you're leaving more sugar in the mash tun. In your case, you might want to increase the spage water a little to make sure you hit the gravity you want. You can just add less make-up water.I would suggest adding the water before fermentation. That way you are fermenting a more 'normal' gravity, and you don't have to worry about oxidation.I've done a few 15 gallon batches from a 10 gallon high gravity wort. They worked out great. The only problems for me are mash tun size (I'm limited to about 30 lbs of grain) and moving around 120 pounds of beer. Splitting them up into 5 gallon ferments solves the handling problems, and you can make them different by adding different yeasts, throwing in some dark sugars, or some wort from a separate steep or mini-mash with a lot of dark grains.

[BrewerGeorge]

Interesting.What would be the pros and cons of adding filtered water pre or post fermentation?

The main cons are pretty much those extract brewers experience: lower hop utilization, lower hop "ceiling", slightly darker color, infection risk, etc. Pre-ferment is A LOT easier because you don't have to worry about de-oxygenating the make-up water. I've done it post-ferm and it's a major pain. Boiling the water to drive out the O2 is easy, but keeping it from picking up more while it's cooling is difficult. When I did it I put boiling water into a keg, sealed it and put it on CO2 to cool.

Thanks Guys! Sounds like I'm knocking out some Bitter this weekend! Do you guys also think that IBUs are a direct dilution like gravity? Like if I add 5 gal wort and 5 gal water, I'll get exactly 50% of my anticipated IBUs from the 5 gal boil? EX: 5 gal target of 80 IBUs becomes 40 after dilution to 10 gals?

IBU's are a unit of concentration equal to 1 ppm iso-alpha acid. Therefore the dilute exactly proportionally - as anything else.

[jayb151]

Sweet, what does everyone think of this for ten gallons? It’s basically Jamil’s Ordinary Bitter13 # Marris Otter1 # Crystal 120.5 # Special RoastI was going to put a bit of an American twist on it since it’s more for my consumption than contests3 oz Simcoe FWH targeting about 85 IBUsPossibly another ounce at knock out. Target OG: 1.082 I figure that if I don’t get this high of a gravity I’ll just add less water or some extract. I also want to try out the London ESB from Wyeast.Opinions? Comments? Asshat-ery?

[3rd party JKor]

That's a pretty high BU:GU ratio for an ordinary bitter.

[BrewerGeorge]

You mean 85 IBU's before dilution, right?I hate american hops with English yeast, but that's just me.

[3rd party JKor]

You mean 85 IBU's before dilution, right?I hate american hops with English yeast, but that's just me.

Yeah, but even 42.5 is high for a bitter. That will be too bitter, IMO. Although, maybe that's what jay is looking for.

[jayb151]

Yea, you guys are right about it being too high, but I find that most of my beers don't get as bitter as the number would lead me to think. It's just something I've noticed on my system...although that does still seem abit high. Maybe kick it down to about 75ish before dilution? As for the American hops, I really dig it more than English. I know it's against style, but I'm just going to give it a try. Besides, Simcoe usually gives me a very fruity character that I think will mesh with the yeast. But still feel free to try and dissuade me, I like to keep the dialouge going to keep me thinking. Other than the hops, do you guys see any problem with it?Thanks,JayB