24 replies to this topic

[Howie]

Thinking about the idea of no-sparge brewing for the occasional quick brew session. Particularly the method of mashing in at a normal water/grist ratio, and then adding the extra water right before recirculation.What type of efficiency do you guys get? I generally get around 70-75% with batch sparging.

[Stout_fan]

Well it depends upon the OG of the brew. For 1.100 and such, I plan on 50%.For normal weight beers, I'm with you on the 70-75% with batch sparging.For milds (1.042) I will get 80-85%

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Well it depends upon the OG of the brew. For 1.100 and such, I plan on 50%.For normal weight beers, I'm with you on the 70-75% with batch sparging.For milds (1.042) I will get 80-85%

I think the biggest beer I've made is 1.07ish and I still hit my normal efficiency. At what point should I expect it to start tapering off? I wasn't aware that efficiency went down as the OG went up.

[Howie]

Well it depends upon the OG of the brew. For 1.100 and such, I plan on 50%.For normal weight beers, I'm with you on the 70-75% with batch sparging.For milds (1.042) I will get 80-85%

And you're getting this with the no-sparge method?

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

And you're getting this with the no-sparge method?

no - I think he's talking about batch sparging.

[MakeMeHoppy]

I think I remember some prior thread and about 50% was quoted as a typical no sparge efficiency. Do you think you really save time this way? It would depend on your set up but I heat sparge water while the mash is completing. I start boiling the first runnings when I do the sparge and I don't think it would take any longer to get to a boil if I did a no sparge method.

[Howie]

I think I remember some prior thread and about 50% was quoted as a typical no sparge efficiency. Do you think you really save time this way? It would depend on your set up but I heat sparge water while the mash is completing. I start boiling the first runnings when I do the sparge and I don't think it would take any longer to get to a boil if I did a no sparge method.

Yes, it would save time with my setup, I believe. I typically allow the do a lot of recirculation and a slow runoff.However, I don't think I'd be able to live with 50% efficiency.Basically, I haven't brewed in about 18 months. Getting the itch again, but there's no way with two young kids and my wife that a 6-hour brew day will ever be able to happen - at least not for a while. Just considering some options. I'm also thinking about going back to partial mashing to cut the brew day down to 3-4 hours. I can do that on a weeknight, and the wife would likely allow that.

[jayb151]

Basically, I haven't brewed in about 18 months. Getting the itch again, but there's no way with two young kids and my wife that a 6-hour brew day will ever be able to happen - at least not for a while. Just considering some options. I'm also thinking about going back to partial mashing to cut the brew day down to 3-4 hours. I can do that on a weeknight, and the wife would likely allow that.

You know, Extract is perfect for just this reason. And before this turns into some kind of argument, I would like to say that I only do AG and I only see myself doing AG. But, if it was between extract or no beer, I would choose the extract. I think your situation is one of the situations that I would go back to extract. Other than that, you can try overnight mashing. After you put the kids to bed, mash in and sparge the net day. Just a thought...

[Howie]

You know, Extract is perfect for just this reason. And before this turns into some kind of argument, I would like to say that I only do AG and I only see myself doing AG. But, if it was between extract or no beer, I would choose the extract. I think your situation is one of the situations that I would go back to extract.

Yeah, that's why I'm thinking about the old "partial mash in a bag" thing. After being an all grain brewer for six years, I'm pretty convinced that the biggest factors in brewing good beer are fermentation and yeast handling, and not so much wort production. I'm betting I can make very good beer with a partial mash. Maybe not as good as all grain, but pretty good. I can see doing some traditional extract batches, but I would miss being able to use specialty grains that would need mashing.

[BrewerGeorge]

You should get 50-55% from no-sparge.Are you interested in other ways to speed your brewday while still doing AG? I can personally do a full AG in about 4 hours and could speed even that up if necessary.A good start is All-grain partial boil to reduce the volumes you're heating and cooling and save time. Efficiency isn't that much higher than no-sparge, but it should be faster. Add a heat stick to heat sparge water and come up to boil faster. Weigh and grind grains, portion hops the day before, etc.There are more time-saving ideas if you're interested. They probably deserve their own thread.

[MakeMeHoppy]

You should get 50-55% from no-sparge.Are you interested in other ways to speed your brewday while still doing AG? I can personally do a full AG in about 4 hours and could speed even that up if necessary.A good start is All-grain partial boil to reduce the volumes you're heating and cooling and save time. Efficiency isn't that much higher than no-sparge, but it should be faster. Add a heat stick to heat sparge water and come up to boil faster. Weigh and grind grains, portion hops the day before, etc.There are more time-saving ideas if you're interested. They probably deserve their own thread.

George, thanks for the link to partial boil all grain. I currently do texas two step all grain on the kitchen stove. I need that to get the wort to boil and for capacity. About 20/30 minutes into the boil I can combine to one pot. For an extra pound or two of grain this may work better. I'm also thinking I can maybe sparge the grains later to collect wort for a starter, I have to work out the numbers first.

[Howie]

You should get 50-55% from no-sparge.Are you interested in other ways to speed your brewday while still doing AG? I can personally do a full AG in about 4 hours and could speed even that up if necessary.A good start is All-grain partial boil to reduce the volumes you're heating and cooling and save time. Efficiency isn't that much higher than no-sparge, but it should be faster. Add a heat stick to heat sparge water and come up to boil faster. Weigh and grind grains, portion hops the day before, etc.There are more time-saving ideas if you're interested. They probably deserve their own thread.

Interesting post on the All Grain Partial Boil.I would definitely be interested in "time-saving" steps. I've never been able to do a quick AG batch (though poor preparation is part of the reason).

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I think the fastest I've ever done it is about 6 hours. Granted, I'm factoring in almost everything except measuring my H2O.

[Howie]

Just a little more info, my "hopeful" plan is to brew roughly 9 gallon batches. I'll lose 1-2 qts in the boil, then I'll ferment in two corny kegs (each with a different yeast and with foam control), ending up with around 8 finished gallons.We'll see what happens, if anything. My brew equipment is just mocking me. I always get a strong urge to brew when the fall rolls around.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Just a little more info, my "hopeful" plan is to brew roughly 9 gallon batches. I'll lose 1-2 qts in the boil, then I'll ferment in two corny kegs (each with a different yeast and with foam control), ending up with around 8 finished gallons.We'll see what happens, if anything. My brew equipment is just mocking me. I always get a strong urge to brew when the fall rolls around.

I brewed on Sunday and it was spectacular. Nice temperatures, sunny, not too much wind. Everything went pretty smooth except I mashed a little lower than planned. I also used my fresh hops (only ended up with 10.75oz wet) so Mrs. Zymological and my MIL helped me pick them after the boil settled down. I had these guys in the brew kettle in less than 40 minutes after being picked so they should be about as fresh as you can get!

[tag]

A recent Zymurgy had an article on the expected efficiency with no-sparge. It depends on the water:grain ratio.

[Stout_fan]

And you're getting this with the no-sparge method?

Sorry for the confusion Howie, I batch sparge all my brews except in the rare occasion when I'm a tad under gravity and under volume. Then it's a convenient fly sparge for 1 gallon or so. But as gravity goes up, the sparge volume goes down. So it approaches a no sparge brew at VERY high gravities. My Samiclaus 1.200 was close to a no sparge. I think a gallon was about it for a 14 gal. preboil volume.Now you can maintain the same water to grain ratio and boil the snot out of it to get the gravity where you want it to be.You would save a ten spot in less grain, but burn easily a lot more $ of propane, and another hour or two of your time to boil it.IMNSFHO that's a metric buttload of effort to say I achieved an efficiency number.Whoopie props to me, hoist your glasses guys and drink a toast I got 86%! Yahoooo!BFD!I'd rather take that time and propane and do a partigyle and have twice the brew with a LOT higher overall efficiency.Not because I want the number. But because I'm a cheap SOB that hates to throw anything usable away.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I'd rather take that time and propane and do a partigyle and have twice the brew with a LOT higher overall efficiency.Not because I want the number. But because I'm a cheap SOB that hates to throw anything usable away.

at what gravity is it reasonable to start considering making two beers (partigyle)? I'm not really aware how I would calculate what the two gravities would be.

[Howie]

Sorry for the confusion Howie, I batch sparge all my brews except in the rare occasion when I'm a tad under gravity and under volume. Then it's a convenient fly sparge for 1 gallon or so. But as gravity goes up, the sparge volume goes down. So it approaches a no sparge brew at VERY high gravities. My Samiclaus 1.200 was close to a no sparge. I think a gallon was about it for a 14 gal. preboil volume.Now you can maintain the same water to grain ratio and boil the snot out of it to get the gravity where you want it to be.You would save a ten spot in less grain, but burn easily a lot more $ of propane, and another hour or two of your time to boil it.IMNSFHO that's a metric buttload of effort to say I achieved an efficiency number.Whoopie props to me, hoist your glasses guys and drink a toast I got 86%! Yahoooo!BFD!I'd rather take that time and propane and do a partigyle and have twice the brew with a LOT higher overall efficiency.Not because I want the number. But because I'm a cheap SOB that hates to throw anything usable away.

In the case of high gravity brews, I agree with you. I never really brew anything that's high gravity.

[3rd party JKor]

Just go extract, you can brew a lot of good beers with extract alone, even without a partial mash. Pick up Brewing Classic Styles, if you haven't already. I think Jamil does a good job with converting his AG recipes to extract.