7 replies to this topic

[wengared]

I was over at the orchard getting apples, the owner who has been keeping bees for about 40 years asked me if i wanted a bucket of honey he said had soured?, it has a mild "wine"? flavor to it but still tastes like honey,so i've got a free 40 lb. bucket os honey, anyone run into "sour" honey?

[Wayne B]

What you have there is a bucket of honey that has crystallized, and has partially fermented with wild yeast, and potentially some acetobacter or similar organisms. When the honey crystallizes, solid sugars form the crystals and leave behind a liquid that no longer has as high of a sugar concentration. So, crystallization in effect dilutes the remaining liquid. That diluted liquid can, in some cases, support fermentation if the right kind of wild yeast are present. That's not a good thing, since that volatile acidity that you taste and smell doesn't go away if you subsequently use the honey for a mead batch. But you can reduce the level, and kill off any remaining wild organisms, by pasteurizing or boiling.If you want to experiment with it, try pasteurization or boiling of a must made with that honey. It is definitely worth a shot, but there's no guarantee that you'll get anything drinkable out of it. NOTE: These are the only circumstances where I recommend boiling or pasteurizing musts these days.

Edited by Wayne B, 18 September 2009 - 07:31 AM.

[wengared]

What you have there is a bucket of honey that has crystallized, and has partially fermented with wild yeast, and potentially some acetobacter or similar organisms. When the honey crystallizes, solid sugars form the crystals and leave behind a liquid that no longer has as high of a sugar concentration. So, crystallization in effect dilutes the remaining liquid. That diluted liquid can, in some cases, support fermentation if the right kind of wild yeast are present. That's not a good thing, since that volatile acidity that you taste and smell doesn't go away if you subsequently use the honey for a mead batch. But you can reduce the level, and kill off any remaining wild organisms, by pasteurizing or boiling.If you want to experiment with it, try pasteurization or boiling of a must made with that honey. It is definitely worth a shot, but there's no guarantee that you'll get anything drinkable out of it. NOTE: These are the only circumstances where I recommend boiling or pasteurizing musts these days.

taking a little time to study up on this, i'm going to give it a shot, tomorrow i'll heat it to about 160 for 20 minutes, then store in in an air tight container until i decide what recipe to follow, i'm guessing a metheglin or melomel to try and cover any off tastes, suggestions?

[zymot]

taking a little time to study up on this, i'm going to give it a shot, tomorrow i'll heat it to about 160 for 20 minutes, then store in in an air tight container until i decide what recipe to follow, i'm guessing a metheglin or melomel to try and cover any off tastes, suggestions?

Threads like this remind me of what the owner of my LHBS told me. All the time he gets people who had something go wrong with their wine or beer. They want to come up with something they can blend it with in order to "save" it. His question is "Why do you think you are going end up with good wine by starting with bad wine?" You take some really excellent wine, blend it with bad wine and end up with lots of OK wine. Sounds like a good way to ruin excellent wine.(same goes for beer) Why not take the bad wine, set it aside and drink the excellent wine?So how are you going to make good mead by starting with bad honey?If you made a mead with unspoiled honey and something went wrong and the mead went sour, what would you do? You wouldn't be saying "Oh boy honey vinegar, just what I wanted!"Having said that, I understand not wanting to discard a large volume of something. I understand you do not want to waste it and try to get something out of it. I would probably be inclined to try the same thing.In the case of mead, I say, go ahead and pasteurize it, mix it with water as per a preferred mead recipe, pitch the yeast and nutrients. See what you get. Take the chance and the challenge. If you got the resources and can spare the time and space, why not?If it were me I would be conservative and not invest in a bunch expensive spices or other ingredients. Make the basic mead, if it progresses nicely, add your flavor ingredients then.Let us know how this progresses.zymot

[wengared]

Threads like this remind me of what the owner of my LHBS told me. All the time he gets people who had something go wrong with their wine or beer. They want to come up with something they can blend it with in order to "save" it. His question is "Why do you think you are going end up with good wine by starting with bad wine?" You take some really excellent wine, blend it with bad wine and end up with lots of OK wine. Sounds like a good way to ruin excellent wine.(same goes for beer) Why not take the bad wine, set it aside and drink the excellent wine?So how are you going to make good mead by starting with bad honey?If you made a mead with unspoiled honey and something went wrong and the mead went sour, what would you do? You wouldn't be saying "Oh boy honey vinegar, just what I wanted!"Having said that, I understand not wanting to discard a large volume of something. I understand you do not want to waste it and try to get something out of it. I would probably be inclined to try the same thing.In the case of mead, I say, go ahead and pasteurize it, mix it with water as per a preferred mead recipe, pitch the yeast and nutrients. See what you get. Take the chance and the challenge. If you got the resources and can spare the time and space, why not?If it were me I would be conservative and not invest in a bunch expensive spices or other ingredients. Make the basic mead, if it progresses nicely, add your flavor ingredients then.Let us know how this progresses.zymot

first, i've got a lot of space and empty primaries.second, got a plan, and recipe,(joe.s ancient orange)my last batch had a sherry finish to it.third, tasting it, i don't think it's as bad as scott said, he just won't feed it back to his bee's.fourth, i'm a cheapskate, when it comes to wasting food.so hopefully a year from now i'll be enjoying it.

[Wayne B]

first, i've got a lot of space and empty primaries.second, got a plan, and recipe,(joe.s ancient orange)my last batch had a sherry finish to it.third, tasting it, i don't think it's as bad as scott said, he just won't feed it back to his bee's.fourth, i'm a cheapskate, when it comes to wasting food.so hopefully a year from now i'll be enjoying it.

I do like zymot's suggestion, though. In order to find out exactly what to expect from this honey, you should do a "test batch" traditional. That way you can assess the flavors from the honey, and not have them masked by other components. A simple, low starting gravity (1.080-ish) gallon batch will tell you volumes about what you could expect from this honey in a larger, more complex batch. And at only 10% ABV or thereabouts, you can get a good idea of those flavors from a taste of the mead only about a month after it finishes fermenting.

Edited by Wayne B, 21 September 2009 - 08:28 AM.

[wengared]

I do like zymot's suggestion, though. In order to find out exactly what to expect from this honey, you should do a "test batch" traditional. That way you can assess the flavors from the honey, and not have them masked by other components. A simple, low starting gravity (1.080-ish) gallon batch will tell you volumes about what you could expect from this honey in a larger, more complex batch. And at only 10% ABV or thereabouts, you can get a good idea of those flavors from a taste of the mead only about a month after it finishes fermenting.

I got a one gallon test started with D-47 yeast, about 40 oz. of honey to get roughly 1.080,this honey appears darker in color, and after pasturizing it the flavor cleaned up a little. I'll let you know the taste in about a month.

[wengared]

well i couldn't wait any longer so i pulled off a test and it's at 1.018 and has the same taste as any other young mead, no noticable off flavors. guess i lucked into 26 pounds of usable honey, my thoughts are to use it for both the fall bounty cyser and a batch of "Cruzs' apple butter cyser.with the spices in both cysers it would be difficult to noticed that i pasturized it.