24 replies to this topic

[xd_haze]

Alright, so I don't make many wheat beers. Nonetheless, this one has me stumped. I made an AG hefe (50/50 franco-belg. pils and wheat malt, white I think). Mashed at about 151 for an hour, maybe and hour and a half. No finings, kettle and otherwise. It tastes and looks like it should, except for the foam. It is kegged and fully carbed. This thing has huge bubbles that break quickly, and then it lays there, headless, but carbonated. I force carbed it a week ago to about 3 volumes.Two questions -- any idea what would cause this?But more importantly for present purposes -- can I add malto dextrine to finished beer in the keg and will this help with head retention?Thanks,Mike

[JReigle]

My initial guess would be that something is inhibiting the head from retaining itself, not a lack of foam itself. It sounds like it's pouring a head that quickly dissipates, correct?If this is the case, there probably isn't a lot you can do to force the head to stick around. Check this article out:BYO article on head retentionThis talks about what creates the foam, what helps it stick around, and what makes it go away. Considering you're doing a wheat beer, you most likely have plenty of "foam makers". What you see here is probably the result of the "foam breakers" destroying surface tension and thus your head. Maltodextrine would help if you had a lack of foam makers and no major source of foam breakers.

[ANUSTART]

I went through a troubleshooting period when I noticed a lack of head retention in several of my beers. It turned out that head retention was improved by lowering fermentation temps. I now ferment at the lowest # listed for the yeast, but I'm measuring ambient temps still. I could take it step further and measure internal temp, but I havent gotten around to it. I have seen an improvement in head retention with lower ferm temps.

[xd_haze]

I went through a troubleshooting period when I noticed a lack of head retention in several of my beers. It turned out that head retention was improved by lowering fermentation temps. I now ferment at the lowest # listed for the yeast, but I'm measuring ambient temps still. I could take it step further and measure internal temp, but I havent gotten around to it. I have seen an improvement in head retention with lower ferm temps.

I did ferment this thing low, with 3068, on the order of 62 (not ambient, but the outside of the ss fermenter). I'm at a loss on this one, none of my other beers have had this trouble, but I have had it off and on with wheat beers. mike

[3rd party JKor]

I did a wheat recently that lacks head retention a little bit. Clearly not on the level you're talking about, it maintains a head for a good bit, but my expectation for head retention with a wheat is pretty high. I also fermented with 3068 at 62-63.

[ncbeerbrewer]

I did a wheat recently that lacks head retention a little bit. Clearly not on the level you're talking about, it maintains a head for a good bit, but my expectation for head retention with a wheat is pretty high. I also fermented with 3068 at 62-63.

Heck I can say the same for myself and the most recent Hefe I brewed as well. Wy 3068 at 64 degrees. I was thinking at first that maybe a dirty glass was suspect but it seems to be a more common problem. My hefe has ho trouble pouring foamy but it flattens out after a short length of time.

[xd_haze]

This makes me wonder whether 3068 is doing something strange. The strain could have mutated and be producing some head killers. Anyone else out there notice anything strange with 3068?Mike

Heck I can say the same for myself and the most recent Hefe I brewed as well. Wy 3068 at 64 degrees. I was thinking at first that maybe a dirty glass was suspect but it seems to be a more common problem. My hefe has ho trouble pouring foamy but it flattens out after a short length of time.

[DaBearSox]

Are you using a blowoff tube? If you have a lot of blowoff you are losing head retainers in the schmutz that comes out...

[Deerslyr]

This makes me wonder whether 3068 is doing something strange. The strain could have mutated and be producing some head killers. Anyone else out there notice anything strange with 3068?Mike

Now that you mention it... yeah. The last batch I did, the bubbles in the head were like fine champagne bubbles and it didn't take long for them to settle down. Not like the nice rocky white foam I get with my Cream Ale, that's for sure. I don't think I've ever had this problem with 3068 before, now that I think of it. But I don't know how it could be the yeasts problem.

[Salsgebom]

I brew hefe twice a week using 3068. It's one of the heartier strains I've used- love it! Never had a problem with head retention, the beer keeps a few millimeters of foam all the way to the bottom of the glass. I have been testing bottles lately by setting them around the brewery at different temps and have noticed the beer stored hot (>80F) lose their head retention completely over time. I have not tested bottles of our other ales yet.3068 (a delbruckei strain) obviously produces more esters and phenolics, but does it produce more fusel alcohols? If it does, that will kill head retention (and also explains why fermenting too warm will reduce head retention). My theory with the bottles is that some level of oxidation (unfortunately the bottles have been oxidized which is why you're not seeing us in stores yet) is creating yeast growth which creates fusel alcohols, and the beers stored hot just develop this problem faster. But that should be the same regardless of strain.Hm.

[xd_haze]

Are you using a blowoff tube? If you have a lot of blowoff you are losing head retainers in the schmutz that comes out...

No blow off -- 11 gallons fermented in a 16 gallon keg.Cool fermentation, followed immediately by cold conditioning in kegs (45 deg). All of the standard explanations have failed me, which is why I'm at a loss on this one. It behaves like soda -- foams up strong on the pour but quickly settles out to nothing. Further, it leaves negligible lace on the glass when it does.My first thought was the glassware, but I've eliminated that as a possibility. I also tried it through a different tap (a cobra tap rather than the usual perlick forward sealing one.) That rules out contamination in the lines. Also, I have two kegs, and they both have the problem. So I don't think that it is the kegs, either. Both kegs were cleaned with PWB rinsed, with filtered water, and sanitized with star san. ???Mike

[JReigle]

Have you considered your thermometer? If it's reading a few degrees high this would put your mash into less dextrinous territory. Personally, I've noticed that my mid 140s mashed beers are aren't heady at all even if I'm using copious amounts of oats.

[JReigle]

Also, not sure if you've run across this, but the talk about lipids and their effect is interesting. Lipids

[Big Nake]

Are you using a blowoff tube? If you have a lot of blowoff you are losing head retainers in the schmutz that comes out...

Thank goodness you said "schmutz" and not Schputz­™, which a registered trademark of Mayfair Court Brewhouse. Seriously, I can't imagine a beer with 50% wheat giving you guys bad head stability. I wouldn't make a beer with 3068 because I don't care for the profile, but I do know a lot of local brewers who enjoy it so I will ask on our local board. Cheers.

[Slainte]

I brew hefe twice a week using 3068. It's one of the heartier strains I've used- love it! Never had a problem with head retention, the beer keeps a few millimeters of foam all the way to the bottom of the glass.

Yep me neither. Always get awesome head with 3068 hefes on tap.

[DaBearSox]

Yep me neither. Always get awesome head with 3068 hefes on tap.

Can I borrow your wife?BA DUM CHING

[xd_haze]

I couldn't imagine a beer with 50% wheat giving bad head stability either --- until now!I confident in my thermos, I have a dedicated thermocouple meter and I usually stick another probe in on a different reader to check different points in the mash. Same goes for the fermentation; I have a controller and a monitor.mike

Thank goodness you said "schmutz" and not Schputz­™, which a registered trademark of Mayfair Court Brewhouse. Seriously, I can't imagine a beer with 50% wheat giving you guys bad head stability. I wouldn't make a beer with 3068 because I don't care for the profile, but I do know a lot of local brewers who enjoy it so I will ask on our local board. Cheers.

[ncbeerbrewer]

I drank a few of my Bav Hefes while I brewed my Roggenbier tonight and I have to say I had good head retention. I think I thought it was worse when I posted earlier. They all looked good to be honest.

[xd_haze]

I've been investigating further, and it looks like I have lots of foaming in the lines. Anyone think that this could matter?Mike

[drewseslu]

I've been investigating further, and it looks like I have lots of foaming in the lines. Anyone think that this could matter?Mike

Very much so.If you are getting carbonation breakout in the lines, then you won't have as much fizz in the glass and there goes your head retention.But...it could still be something else, or a combination.