15 replies to this topic

[robsauce]

I racked into a carboy this evening and even though I anticipated a bit of volume loss due to lees and cherries I have quite a bit less than I originally thought I would in my secondary. Mead porn/pic to follow. Now a question of what to do with the head space? I don't have any means to fill it with co2 unfortunately and I'd rather not fill it with dead space (ie: marbles) cause more mead is better in my mind. One thought was to go buy a some cherry juice (organic/no preservatives) to fill it up with, or possibly some additional honey dissolved in water?? If I do go the route of cherry juice(which I'm kind of leaning towards unless someone tells me not to) how much do you think I would need to get it to an appropriate level?? Thoughts? As a side note: holy crap is this stuff ever dark!!!

[robsauce]

If it helps answer my question above, here is my brewlog so far:BrewlogRecipe: See aboveOG: 1.102Honey Variety?: Clover/Alfalfa blendYeast Type?: Lalvin D47Pectic Enzyme Used?: NoMust Temp: 80FLag Time: About 12-15hrsO2/Air Infused & Duration (min.): Stirred for 5min before and after pitching yeastNutrient Brand?: Fermaid KDAP Brand?: GenericUsing SNA?: YesRehydrated?: YesUsed Go-Ferm?: YesAmb. Rm Temp: 70F at inoculation, must is currently in the basement - temp varies between 60-65FSG measurements by Hydrometer or Refractometer? HydrometerPH: I'm hoping to get my wife to bring home some pH strips from work to get me a general readingProcedure1) Added 6L of room temp tap water to primary2) Blended (using an immersion blender) ~10lbs of sour cherries (previously frozen/thawed twice)3) Added blended cherries to primary4) Boiled and cooled 7L of water to approx 130F5) Stirred and dissolved 1gallon of honey into 130F water6) Heated 1L of water to ~160F and added to honey bucket to get all the goodness out7) Added honey mixtures to primary – total volume approx 22L8) Stage1 nutrient addition: Dissolved a little more than 1tsp of each DAP and Fermaid-K into 1L of warm water and added to must9) Added additional 3L of water to must – total volume ~ 26L or 6.5 gallons10) Rehydrated 10g of Go-ferm in 110F water. Added 8g D47 yeast once cooled to 104F and let sit for 15 minutes.11) Stirred must vigorously for 5 minutes12) Pitched yeast - must temp 78F, yeast temp 82F.13) Stirred must vigorously for 5 minutes14) Stir for ~ 5minutes 2x/day until 1/2 sugar break.Day1 - Mar 24 - 12pm Gravity: 1.102 - Must temp: 78F Room temp: 60FDay2 - Mar 25 - 6pm Gravity: 1.102 - Must temp: 62F Room temp: 60F -> moved from basement upstairs to ~ 68-70F room temp.Day3 - Mar 26 - 8pm Gravity: 1.096 - Must temp: 71F Room temp: 69F. Tested pH with pH strip - somewhere around 3.0 or slightly higher.Day4 - Mar 27 - 6pm Gravity: 1.072 - Must temp: 68F Room temp: 64F. Added 3/4tsp of each DAP and Fermaid-K. Moved back downstairs.Day5 - Mar 28 - 5pm Gravity: 1.044 - Must temp: 69F Room temp: 63F. Added 1/4tsp of each DAP and Fermaid-K.Day6 - Mar 29 - 9pm Gravity: 1.028 - Must temp: 65F Room temp: 60F.Day7 - Mar 30 - 10pm Gravity: 1.020 - Must temp: 64F Room temp: 62F.Day8 - Mar 31 - 9pm Gravity: 1.012 - Must temp: 62F Room temp: 61F.Day9 - Apr 1 - 6pm Gravity: 1.008 - Must temp: 61F Room temp: 60F.Day 11 - Apr 3 - 8pm Gravity 1.004 - Must temp: 63F Room temp: 64F.Day 12 - Apr 4 - 5pm Gravity 1.002 - Must temp: 63F Room temp: 62F.Day 13 - Apr 5 - 8pm Gravity 1.002 - Must temp: 63F Room temp: 64F.Day 14 - Apr 6 - 9pm Gravity 1.002 - Must temp: 63F Room temp: 63F.15) Siphoned off lees and cherries into carboy. Capped with airlock filled with vodka.

[strangebrewer]

That's a lot of headspace. Honestly the first thing I'd do is rack it to a 5 gallon carboy. That will solve the bulk of the headspace issue. Then taste it from there and decide if you want to sweeten it with some honey, add more cherry flavor with some juice, or leave it be. If it tastes good the way it is then definitely go the smaller carboy/marble route to take up the excess headspace.

[robsauce]

All I have are 23L/6 Gallon carboys :blush:I tasted it and it is pretty good but quite hot and tart which I'm hoping will mellow with age. I think I might get some cherry juice and add that later tonight - possibly along with some honey water as the cherry juice isn't all that cheap - $6/liter

[Wayne B]

All I have are 23L/6 Gallon carboys :blush:I tasted it and it is pretty good but quite hot and tart which I'm hoping will mellow with age. I think I might get some cherry juice and add that later tonight - possibly along with some honey water as the cherry juice isn't all that cheap - $6/liter

Lots of people have tried lots of things to fill the headspace, from sanitized marbles to topping up with water/cider/juice/wine, but my preferred method is to fill the space with CO2. You can be elaborate about it and get a large bottle, or simply use a handheld keg charger and a little single-use charge, and through some plastic tubing you can fill the headspace with enough CO2 to keep any significant oxidation from occurring.

[ScottS]

I have never worried about headspace and have never had an issue. Your mead is going to outgas CO2 which will effectively create a blanket for you. So unless you've intentionally degassed it, or you've got 1 gal of mead in a 5 gal carboy, I wouldn't worry about it. Eyeballing your carboy, I think it'll be fine.

[strangebrewer]

I have never worried about headspace and have never had an issue. Your mead is going to outgas CO2 which will effectively create a blanket for you. So unless you've intentionally degassed it, or you've got 1 gal of mead in a 5 gal carboy, I wouldn't worry about it. Eyeballing your carboy, I think it'll be fine.

Interesting. I've always been diligent about volumes particularly with mead since it's more controllable. I don't have that luxury with wine as volumes vary depending on year and grape so I have a variety of different volume carboys. I have had 1 incident with acetobacter taking hold when I put 1/2 a gallon of wine in a 1 gallon jug under and airlock and forgot about it for months. It was only a half gallon so I wasn't upset and I just added it to the existing vinegar I'm making. But it did drive home the point that at least with stuff I plan to do extended aging on to do everything you can to keep less desirable bugs at bay.Clearly though YMMV.

[SnowMan]

I have never worried about headspace and have never had an issue. Your mead is going to outgas CO2 which will effectively create a blanket for you. So unless you've intentionally degassed it, or you've got 1 gal of mead in a 5 gal carboy, I wouldn't worry about it. Eyeballing your carboy, I think it'll be fine.

I'm with scott on this one. I won't intentionally leave a bunch of headspace but I have never had a problem at levels very similar to what you are showing. That said. I keep a variety of carboys around for the purpose of minimizing headspace where I can. I'll primary in a 6.5 gal carboy or a small plastic barrel that I have. Next is a 6 gallon carboy and then a 5 gallon as lees settle out. Depending on the recipe and my schedule I often place it in a corny keg and seal. Before I bottle I'll put it back into a carboy and degass.You can never have to many carboys!

[Wayne B]

While I recommended using CO2, I have also kept meads in carboys with substantial headspace for extended periods of time (months, up to a year) with no ill effects. Mead is far less susceptible to oxidative changes than grape wines (or most fruit wines) are. However, the potential for contamination with an aerobic bug (such as acetobacter) is the reason that I now routinely purge my headspace with CO2.

[robsauce]

So I guess the consensus is either leave it as is or fill with co2. Are there actually any negatives to adding juice or honey now? Wouldn't it just start up a secondary fermentation??? Or are there other negatives to adding liquid that I'm not thinking off (keep in mind this is my first mead other than 2 1gallon modified JAOM's). Should I be concerned about headspace for future rackings over the coming months? I plan to bulk age this for a year racking every 2 months or so.Thanks for everyones help!!

[ScottS]

I plan to bulk age this for a year racking every 2 months or so.

This is going to cause more oxidation issues than headspace. I usually rack at the end of fermentation, 2 months later, then at 9-12 months. The last racking is into the keg it will be served from.Edit: In case I wasn't clear, every two months is way too much racking, in my opinion.

[robsauce]

See the things I learn by asking questions.... I will take your advice and use your racking schedule (give'r take) but I'm still leaning towards adding cherry juice and some honey unless someone can tell me a big reason why not to. Also, I would like to add some vanilla beans at some time. How do people normally do this??? In reading other forums the most common method would be to rack onto or add vanilla beans to secondary and taste every other day or so until a significant vanilla flavour is present and then rack off of them. Anyone have any other tricks when adding vanilla beans? Tie a string to them so you can pull them out??

[Wayne B]

I agree with Scott. Right after fermentation has completed, and for a month or two thereafter, your mead is outgassing CO2 naturally, so oxidation is not something to worry about. However, repeatedly racking every couple of months will cause all that built-up CO2 to be purged and you open up the mead to potential oxidation issues, as well as to the oxygen loving spoilage organisms that I mentioned earlier.Nothing wrong with adding vanilla beans to secondary, but I think that a tasting every couple of weeks is sufficient to see how the vanilla is infusing. When I have enough vanilla presence (or oak, when I add cubes, for that matter), I rack off of them and into another carboy.

[zymot]

Bump I guess. Stumbled on this thread from the back sweetening thread that links to this.With regards to the headspace issue. Don't wine stores sell some dispenser for the purpose of putting a blanket of inert gas in an opened bottle of wine?I am not a wine guy and do not pretend to know what I am talking about or saying the product works or applies to mead. Although I am cannot come up with a reason why it would not work.If somebody was worried about it, makes sense. When you consider you are talking about a significant investment in honey and 1 year or so of aging. Springing for a few more bucks to help the project is not all unreasonable.Any opinions on the application? For me, I use cornies to age in and not much head space or me to worry about.zymot

[ScottS]

With an open bottle of wine, oxygen exposure is guaranteed. With headspace over an outgassing must in a closed carboy, oxygen exposure is extremely unlikely.So sure, it wouldn't do any harm. My experience is that it won't do any good either.

[fatbloke]

Me? I just use the cheapest filler I can get.Which is usually red grape juice.......If it's got enough yeast cells left in it, it may start re-fermenting a little. So then I'd just rack it again - given that any refermentation will only generate a tiny amount of lees, if it does need re-racking to get it off the tiny amount of lees I just do the same again and leave it under airlock. then again, I'm just lazy....