19 replies to this topic

[zymot]

OK I have been brewing beer for 5 years. I have many all grain batches under my belt. Ever since I read "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing" I have wanted to make some mead.I am thinking a Raspberry mead. I could start off with a straight mead, but I know I really want to make a raspberry mead.I have downloaded & read hightest's mead instructions. I know not to boil the honey and plan on following hightest's nutrient schedule. I have Ken Schramm's book. I can get fresh honey direct from the beekeeper at the Farmer's market. So I am set thereWhat else does the neophyte mead maker need to know?I have a few questions:What about fermentation temps? What is a practical high/low range?How much head space is required for primary fermentation? I have 5 gallon cornies I can use, or I have 6 gallon brewing buckets?How long is a typical primary fermentation? (secondary is how ever long it takes - I am not worried)What process for adding raspberries is the path that is most likely to be a success?Yeast. I can make a starter and have access to White Labs yeast. I have nothing against dry yeast. Any recommendations?What else should I know?zymot

[BikeBrewer]

I made a raspberry mead and it is very acidic. I think I needed to back-sweeten it or use more honey at the start to balance it out. I love the colour, aroma, and taste, other than that.

[armagh]

I have a few questions:What about fermentation temps? What is a practical high/low range?How much head space is required for primary fermentation? I have 5 gallon cornies I can use, or I have 6 gallon brewing buckets?How long is a typical primary fermentation? (secondary is how ever long it takes - I am not worried)What process for adding raspberries is the path that is most likely to be a success?Yeast. I can make a starter and have access to White Labs yeast. I have nothing against dry yeast. Any recommendations?

Fermentation temperature is whatever is optimal for the yeast chosen. Wine yeasts seem to be the most popular for mead, usually the temperature ranges are from the low 60s to high 70s, but some will work at lower or higher temperatures. Meads tend not to require the same headspace as beer, so a five gallon batch in a 6 gallon bucket for primary should work fine. Most of my batches are through primary in 4-7 days. When to add fruit is a conversation that can draw advocates from all sides - primary, secondary, primary and secondary. You do not need to make a starter if using dry wine yeasts, just rehydrate per the manfacturer's recommendations, which I think is covered on HT's FAQs.One thing, though: melomels are one of the more difficult meads to get right. There was a long thread about the ins and outs of this back on the GB. Might be to your advantage to keep it simple for a first effort.$00.02

[strangebrewer]

Personally I add fruit to secondary and always in a bucket. If you think stuffing 6# of raspberries though the neck of a carboy is a pain wait until you try and get them out :blush:I think raspberries can be tough since they are so acidic. IMO the trick is finding the balance between the residual honey in the mead and the tartness of the berries. I've been working on a raspberry Mel for a while and so far my best results were a 14% ABV mead that finished around 1.020. I then added the raspberries to a bucket and racked the mead on top. Keep in mind when you add fruit it will kick off a second fermentation that you will need headspace for as the berries will form a cap.

[ScottS]

I think raspberries can be tough since they are so acidic. IMO the trick is finding the balance between the residual honey in the mead and the tartness of the berries.

I've found that virtually all fruits are like that, unless they are almost rottingly ripe. I've never had a dry melomel that I enjoyed.

[Wayne B]

I've found that virtually all fruits are like that, unless they are almost rottingly ripe. I've never had a dry melomel that I enjoyed.

But then it is all according to your taste. If you happen to like dry, substantial red wines, then I've got a black currant melomel recipe (using fresh fruit rather than extract, puree or juice) that I think you'd enjoy. One of the best parts of meadmaking is that you can push the envelope with both ingredients and finish, and come up with things that are technically "meads," but bear little resemblance to that cloyingly sweet commercial stuff (aka Chaucer's) that most people associate with the beverage.

[ScottS]

But then it is all according to your taste.

Yes and no. Underripe fruit is all acid and tannins, with little fruit flavor. In my experience, sweetening is necessary just to bring it into balance. With ripe fruit it's not nearly as bad, but much of the time you still get a strong acid component to the fruit that almost begs for balancing.I can see something like currants or elderberries making a good dry mead, after long aging. I don't think that is true of fruit in general - I'd be stunned to hear that a good dry raspberry mead has ever been made.I mentioned my experience with dry melomels to Ken Schramm a couple years ago, and he agreed with me. He stated that in his years of judging mead competitions, he's had a few good dry melomels, but they are few and far between.

[Wayne B]

Scott, I agree with you -- but only to a point. Underripe fruits do not make good dry mels. Likewise, without longer aging, I doubt that you could get a drinkable elderberry dry mel. I have also never had a dry red raspberry mel that wasn't just this side of drinking battery acid. And although it isn't widely known to those of us in the US (since currants have been on the USDA "banned" list until very recently), black currants are one of the highest TA berries of all. Still, you can make a good dry mel with them, provided you are conscious of overall balance of the acidity with other flavor factors. It isn't easy, by any means. But it also isn't easy to make good dry grape wines from grape varieties such as Zinfandel or even Riesling. BTW - I realize that this kind of "spirited discussion" can only be resolved with a tasting. When my current black currant batch is truly ready to sample, I'll have a bottle set aside for you.

Edited by Wayne B, 07 April 2009 - 01:47 PM.

[zymot]

Looks like making a good raspberry mead is harder than it looks. I do not want a challenge for my first mead attempt. Thanks for the polite advice, it has been headed. Let me start over.Who can suggest a good first timer mead recipe?My suggestion box is now wide open.zymot

[MtnBrewer]

There's a good introductory recipe in TCMM.

[japh]

Check out Hightest's basic mead (in the Mead FAQ). Simple, and delicious.

[ScottS]

It isn't easy, by any means. But it also isn't easy to make good dry grape wines from grape varieties such as Zinfandel or even Riesling.

I think that's the key point in this discussion. I would consider making a good dry melomel to be a fairly advanced topic in meadmaking, and I would consider making a sweet raspberry mead to be something a beginner could do, if they had advice and assistance.

BTW - I realize that this kind of "spirited discussion" can only be resolved with a tasting. When my current black currant batch is truly ready to sample, I'll have a bottle set aside for you.

I might have to try making that myself some time. My current bushes aren't very big, right now they only really yield enough to add some interest to a multiberry batch. But you sure can tell they are in there, and dang are they good.

[zymot]

I think that's the key point in this discussion. I would consider making a good dry melomel to be a fairly advanced topic in meadmaking

My OP just said Raspberry Mead. How did the Dry Vs Sweet debate come up? I never mentioned the type. Just Mead & Raspberry. I like the idea of sweet mead against against tart raspberry. So a sweet raspberry mead would be much easier than a dry raspberry mead? To be honest, a basic mead recipes looks pretty simple. Adding the fruit does not appear to be especially tricky. Maybe I am overlooking something.

and I would consider making a sweet raspberry mead to be something a beginner could do, if they had advice and assistance.

Beginner, that's me. So what advice and assistance do I need?zymot

[Underminded]

"Who can suggest a good first timer mead recipe?My suggestion box is now wide open.zymot"This recipe comes from the Gotmead.com site. It finishes very sweet, some people like it and some don't, but it's a simple and relatively quick mead.Joe's Ancient Orange Meadfor 1 gallon:3 1/2 lbs honey1 large orange cut into 1/8's1 small handfull raisins (about 25)1 cinnamon stick1 whole clove1 tsp. Fleismanns bread yeast (yes bread yeast....really)dissolve honey in some warm water and put in 1 gallon carboyput orange slices, rind and all, into carboyput in raisins, cinnamon and cloveshake carboy to aeratefill with water to the shoulder of the carboy when must comes to room temp. add yeast, it can be rehydrated but the original recipe says to just sprinkle it on top.install airlock and put it in a dark place. Ferment between 70*-80*FAfter a few days when the foam dies down add water to ~3" from the topAfter about 2 months it will slow down to a stop and clear by itself. The first time I made this I racked straight to a bottling bucket, but that stirred up to much lees. The oranges and raisins make it a pain to get much clear mead, so now I rack off the fruit to a secondary and let clear again, then bottle.When this is young, it's a little bitter from the orange peel, that will fade with some age. The bread yeast goes against prevailing wisdom, but it works for this recipe.Its a pretty K.I.S.S. recipe (no sulfite, sorbate, nutrients, gravity checking etc. etc.) that I like to make changes to. My next batch I'm thinking of going with a regular dry wine yeast to get the finished gravity down.Like I said, some like it, some don't. Thought I'd throw it out here.Scott

[wengared]

"Who can suggest a good first timer mead recipe?My suggestion box is now wide open.zymot"This recipe comes from the Gotmead.com site. It finishes very sweet, some people like it and some don't, but it's a simple and relatively quick mead.Joe's Ancient Orange Meadfor 1 gallon:3 1/2 lbs honey1 large orange cut into 1/8's1 small handfull raisins (about 25)1 cinnamon stick1 whole clove1 tsp. Fleismanns bread yeast (yes bread yeast....really)dissolve honey in some warm water and put in 1 gallon carboyput orange slices, rind and all, into carboyput in raisins, cinnamon and cloveshake carboy to aeratefill with water to the shoulder of the carboy when must comes to room temp. add yeast, it can be rehydrated but the original recipe says to just sprinkle it on top.install airlock and put it in a dark place. Ferment between 70*-80*FAfter a few days when the foam dies down add water to ~3" from the topAfter about 2 months it will slow down to a stop and clear by itself. The first time I made this I racked straight to a bottling bucket, but that stirred up to much lees. The oranges and raisins make it a pain to get much clear mead, so now I rack off the fruit to a secondary and let clear again, then bottle.When this is young, it's a little bitter from the orange peel, that will fade with some age. The bread yeast goes against prevailing wisdom, but it works for this recipe.Its a pretty K.I.S.S. recipe (no sulfite, sorbate, nutrients, gravity checking etc. etc.) that I like to make changes to. My next batch I'm thinking of going with a regular dry wine yeast to get the finished gravity down.Like I said, some like it, some don't. Thought I'd throw it out here.Scott

I made two seperate batches of this first of febuary using the bread yeast in one and lalvin K1-v1116 in the other, as he suggests, their aging in the secondary now, might take a sample of each today to see the taste difference.

[ScottS]

How did the Dry Vs Sweet debate come up?

A side comment that I made regarding acidity in fruit.

Beginner, that's me. So what advice and assistance do I need?

How much do you want the fruit character to show through?My advice:Use very ripe fruit - if it doesn't taste good straight, it likely won't taste good in a meadFreeze it before using itPut it in the secondaryUse 3 lbs per gallon minimumDon't aim for residual sweetness right off the bat, just aim to exhaust the alcohol tolerance of the yeastLet it sit for 9-12 months, then taste and sweeten to balance the acidity

[Hightest]

My advice:Use very ripe fruit - if it doesn't taste good straight, it likely won't taste good in a meadFreeze it before using it, Put it in the secondary, Use 3 lbs per gallon minimumDon't aim for residual sweetness right off the bat, just aim to exhaust the alcohol tolerance of the yeast - Let it sit for 9-12 months, then taste and sweeten to balance the acidity

All good - especially the last point!

[Underminded]

I made two seperate batches of this first of febuary using the bread yeast in one and lalvin K1-v1116 in the other

Sorry to thread hijack. Wengared, I'd like to know how these turn out, as I was thinking of using K1V or D-47 the next time.Scott

[zymot]

After reading all the posts, I decide to go the direction of simple and elegent.I can get orange blosson honey at the local farmer's market. I will go with hightest's basic mead recipe and staggered nutirent outline.In fall, I might go with a cyser.Thanks to all.zymot

[Stout_fan]

After reading all the posts, I decide to go the direction of simple and elegent...zymot

Start simple. You can always get complex later.