45 replies to this topic

[3rd party JKor]

I might finally get to this.  I've seen two recipes from Clone Brews.  This one seems to be the better of the two.  The other had 10 oz of crystal malts, which doesn't seem right for NM.

 

 

8 lbs. Pilsner 1-1/2 lbs. Vienna 2 oz. chocolate 3/4 oz. Hallertau @90 3/4 oz. Tettnanger @90 1/2 oz. Tettnanger @10 (adjust bittering hops for 27 IBU) Bavarian lager yeast

 

mash 30 min @ 122, 60 min @ 152.

 

OG 1.051

FG 1.012

 

 

Someone posted this on HBT and said it was spot on. I don't know if I believe it or not.  To start I'd go with WLP940.  I don't really get any roasty in the beer, I'd probably sub out carafa special for the chocolate.  I don't know about the protein rest, never done one.  I'm inclined to skip it.

 

I saw one of Ken's recipes (mexican amber lager, pretty sure) that had some flaked corn, which I feel like would suit this recipe as well.

 

What do you guys think?

 

[neddles]

I dont remember ever drinking the beer your cloning. That said, I'd skip the protein rest.

[3rd party JKor]

I dont remember ever drinking the beer your cloning. That said, I'd skip the protein rest.

 

 

You're missing out.  Great refreshing warm weather beer.  It's my one of my summer go-tos.

 

[johnpreuss]

I'd swap midnight wheat for your chocolate malt.  Nice little warm weather drinker then. No roastiness, just color.

 

I'd also look at using Mexican Lager yeast from WL, and  I'm not sure how crucial it would be to use pilsner vs. regular 2 row... this is a mexican beer we are talking about.

Edited by johnpreuss, 07 April 2015 - 08:53 PM.

[neddles]

You're missing out.  Great refreshing warm weather beer.  It's my one of my summer go-tos.
 

Could be. Ill have to keep an eye out for it once it warms up.

[Big Nake]

JKor, I think I may have mentioned this once before but you know what beer comes very, very close to Negro Modelo? Jamil's Vienna. It's possible that I just lightened up Jamil's recipe and got a beer that was a little more like NM but this recipe is really, really nice and NM was the first beer I thought of as I was drinking it. I agree that it's a really nice beer and I often have a few bottles of it in my fridge.

[3rd party JKor]

JKor, I think I may have mentioned this once before but you know what beer comes very, very close to Negro Modelo? Jamil's Vienna. It's possible that I just lightened up Jamil's recipe and got a beer that was a little more like NM but this recipe is really, really nice and NM was the first beer I thought of as I was drinking it. I agree that it's a really nice beer and I often have a few bottles of it in my fridge.

 

 

Yes, you did mention that before.  I had brewed that back in 2010.  My tasting notes indicated the Munich seemed a little too present.  I wasn't really trying to hit Negra Modelo at that time, so the comments aren't necessarily in relation to NM.

 

This was the recipe:

Grain/Extract/Sugar   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential SRM-----------------------------------------------------------------------------  1.3     0.25 lbs. Carafa Special II             Germany        1.030    430 29.3     5.75 lbs. Pilsener                      Germany        1.037      2 26.0     5.10 lbs. Munich Malt I                 Belgium        1.037      8 43.4     8.50 lbs. Vienna Malt                   Germany        1.037      4Hops   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 46.00 g.     Northern Brewer 2008 HD           Pellet   7.32  24.1  60 min. 28.00 g.     Northern Brewer 2008 HD           Pellet   7.32   2.9  10 min.Yeast-----White Labs WLP830 German LagerMash Schedule-------------Dough In Temp:              165  Time:   5Saccharification Rest Temp: 152  Time:  60Mash-out Rest Temp:         168  Time:  30Sparge Temp:                170  Time:  45

Maybe I'll just cut back the Munich, replace with Pils and swap out the 830 for 940.

[Brauer]

It looks like Jamil's recipe is intended to be more like a traditional Vienna, not a Mexican Vienna. It might be closer to one of those if you replaced the Munich Malt with Corn, I'd imagine. I drank a lot of Bohemia Dark when I was in Mexico for Day of the Dead.

[3rd party JKor]

That's right, forgot about the corn. What's a good percent for the corn? 15%? i've only used it once with a cream ale but i do fnd it enjoyable in a light, refreshing beer.

[Big Nake]

My guess is that I took Jamil's Vienna and possibly made it slightly lighter than he intended. I know I didn't use corn in it but I do make a few dark Mexican lagers with corn in them (noble hops, dehusked Carafa III so there is color but very little roasty flavor, etc) and you could definitely do that, JKor. 10-15% flaked corn could be good. I also made a cream ale recently with masa harina (corn flour) that came out really nicely. It has the likelihood of jamming your mash vessel but I think I like it better than the flaked. If you looked at the Jamil Vienna recipe and removed a pound of Munich and subbed flaked corn instead, you might be right on. Then it would come down to yeast. 940 is probably the best option with 2124 or 2308 being next. I used 2308 in Jamil's Vienna and it is an outstanding beer.

[Brauer]

I think you could also skip the corn, replace the Munich with Pilsner Malt, and drop the OG down to 1.044-1.048 and approximate a Mexican Dark Lager without the Corn.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

This thread is inspiring. I'll have a 2308 yeast cake soon. Half for a Helles and half for a Vienna. I like Ken/Jamil's recipe with a tweek. [color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;] 7 lbs Vienna, 3 lbs Pilsner, 2-4 oz powdered Midnight Wheat, 1.25 oz Hallertau for 60, .75 oz for 10.[/color]

[Big Nake]

This thread is inspiring. I'll have a 2308 yeast cake soon. Half for a Helles and half for a Vienna. I like Ken/Jamil's recipe with a tweek. [color=rgb(40,40,40);][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"] 7 lbs Vienna, 3 lbs Pilsner, 2-4 oz powdered Midnight Wheat, 1.25 oz Hallertau for 60, .75 oz for 10.[/color][/font]

CWG: This is such a nice beer. I like using MW too but I think the dehusked carafa III may lend something extra to the beer. I really need to make it again and I have everything I need... just need to make a starter with the 2308. Go to my earlier post and click on the link and look at the glass of beer in that picture. WHOOOOO BOY!!! It's delicious.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

CWG: This is such a nice beer. I like using MW too but I think the dehusked carafa III may lend something extra to the beer. I really need to make it again and I have everything I need... just need to make a starter with the 2308. Go to my earlier post and click on the link and look at the glass of beer in that picture. WHOOOOO BOY!!! It's delicious.

It's a great looking beer Ken. Carafa Special does lend an additional flavor but it sticks out to me. I'm no longer a fan. I need some lagers on tap. I've been slacking this year.

[3rd party JKor]

I brewed a "clone" this weekend.  Not quite what I had planned above, but I was winging it a little.  This was the final recipe for 3.5 gallons:

 

4.5# Pils

2.3# Munich

3 oz. Caramunich

2 oz. Carafa Special I

 

90min: 14g N. Brewer (~30 IBU)

20min:  10g Tettnanger (~2 IBU)

0min: 7g Tettnanger

 

Mash 90 min 152.  I had planned on 60 but I wasn't seeing the conversion i wanted.

 

pitched ~130BB cells of WY2112, fermenting at 62.

 

 

 

It's probably going to be a little richer than the original with the 30% Munich addition and the Caramunich.  I'm actually kind of regretting the Caramunich addition now.  I wish I had just gone Pils/Munich/Carafa.  Probably OK in the end since it will help balance the IBUs which are also on the higher end for the style.  I just think it'll push more towards Dunkel than Vienna.

[Big Nake]

This will make a nice beer, JKor. I would mention that the character that the beer has from various strains of yeast should not be overlooked. I like the character I get from 2112 very much but I don't know if it will give you the same character that you might expect from Negro Modelo, etc. I will admit that I like Negro Modelo (and Victoria, Indio, Leon, Bohemia Dark and some other dark Mexican beers) and I think they compliment food very well. I made Jamil's Vienna again recently with 940 Mexican lager yeast and I also have a recipe I call Bordertown Dark Mexican Lager which is not far from these but I will use some corn in that one to lighten it and make it more Mexican as opposed to a European version. That beer is somewhere in the recipe forum and also on my site. Cheers.

[3rd party JKor]

I do want to try your bordertown with 940. That won't be too far down the road.

 

 

ETA: Ken, for your recipes what are you assuming for finished wort volume and mash efficiency?

Edited by JKor, 06 July 2015 - 11:57 AM.

[Big Nake]

I do want to try your bordertown with 940. That won't be too far down the road.
 
 
ETA: Ken, for your recipes what are you assuming for finished wort volume and mash efficiency?

The Bordertown is made here with 2124 and 940 and both come out very nicely.

I usually get 7 gallons of wort into the kettle, then I'll get some evap and maybe send 5.25 or 5.5 gallons into the primary with a half-gallon or so of hoppy schputz. Depending on the time of year, I may not have ANY wort left... it pretty much all goes into the fermenter. Mash efficiency is probably around 80% or so. I used to take readings but I don't bother anymore.

[3rd party JKor]

Thanks, Ken. I'm doing it up in promash now and putting it in the queue.

I really wanted to do this beer with some flaked corn, too. I don't know why i spaced that. I feel like i really catch some corn in the commercial version.

[3rd party JKor]

Poking around on the NM website i caught the mention of 'caramel malts', 'toasted two-row black malt' and 'Galena hops'. They also mention yeast 'varieties', which i found interesting. Could they be using a blend?