136 replies to this topic

[positiveContact]

I'm starting a new thread over here for more focused recipe development.

 

FACTS straight from the source:

• Malts: Pilsner, pale
• Hops: Styrian Golding, Spalter Select
• Spices: Coriander, sweet orange peel, ginger, grains of paradise
• Yeast: Ommegang house yeast
• OG: 16.8^o Plato (1.069)
• FG: 2.6^o Plato (1.010)
• ABV: 7.7%
• IBU: 24

 

Other information is either old or unreliable but I'm taking it all into account.  This will be a 10 gallon batch.

 

75% Pilsner

12% US 2-row Pale

13% Table Sugar

 

mash at 152F

 

Styrian Golding @ 90 min

1.5 oz Czech saaz @ 1 min (I don't have spalter select so I'll just use saaz)

 

spice additions, probably around 15 minutes left in the boil:

0.06 oz dried ginger (powder)

0.5 oz coriander, I'll probably crush this fresh b/c I don't trust that the coriander that I have ground up myself in the past doesn't have traces of cumin and other spices in it.

0.75-1 square inch of sweet orange peel (dry), maybe 0.35-0.4 oz, we'll see

0.04 oz grains of paradise (if I can find them, otherwise I guess they are getting left out!)

 

I'll ferment on Belle Saison yeast.  I could harvest Ommegang yeast as I have done in the past but it's kind of a PITA and I'd like a saison recipe that I can easily make whenever (commercial yeast).  I'm not really familiar with the right fermentation temperature and profile so I'll be counting on you guys to fill me in there.

Edited by Evil_Morty, 26 March 2015 - 07:08 AM.

[neddles]

Looks good to me and I think I will do the same grist and hop schedule. Here's some additional stuff I said I would dig up.

 

https://www.thespice...ins-of-paradise

 

https://www.williams...RAMS-P1089.aspx

 

https://www.morebeer...-seed-1-oz.html

 

I agree to crush the coriander fresh. This applies to cooking or beer. Once crushed it loses flavor very fast and pretty much becomes sawdust with little flavor.

 

From Farmhouse Ales. Markowski's "barely detectable" level for the spices. Quantities are for 5 gallons and the spices are very finely ground dry spices which are ground just before using.

 

Sweet Orange Peel-5.0g

Ginger-0.5g

Grains of Paradise-.5g

Coriander-7.0g

[positiveContact]

good information on the detectable levels.  I've adjusted my spices accordingly.  I'm keeping the ginger a little higher than detectible b/c my ground ginger is not going to be super fresh.  I have some in the cabinet of an unknown age but if it smells good I'll use it.

 

I'm hoping I can get GOP at my LHBS.  I don't really want to place an online order just for that.

 

how finely crushed does the coriander need to be?  can I just put it in a plastic bag and have at it with a rolling pin?

Edited by Evil_Morty, 26 March 2015 - 07:07 AM.

[neddles]

good information on the detectable levels.  I've adjusted my spices accordingly.  I'm keeping the ginger a little higher than detectible b/c my ground ginger is not going to be super fresh.  I have some in the cabinet of an unknown age but if it smells good I'll use it.

 

I'm hoping I can get GOP at my LHBS.  I don't really want to place an online order just for that.

 

how finely crushed does the coriander need to be?  can I just put it in a plastic bag and have at it with a rolling pin?

You like to cook right? Lots of good stuff at the spice house.

 

Not from experience on the coriander but straight out of FA "very finely ground dry spices". In practice though you won't be able to get coriander quite as finely ground as the others.

 

ETA: When I make this I will use something similar to those levels too.

Edited by nettles, 26 March 2015 - 07:12 AM.

[Poptop]

Coffee grinder?  I use mortar and pestle with my coriander and MAN, what an aroma it give off.  The better the grind the more you'll get out of it.

[neddles]

Coffee grinder?  I use mortar and pestle with my coriander and MAN, what an aroma it give off.  The better the grind the more you'll get out of it.

Yeah, I use an old coffee grinder for spices.

[Poptop]

For what it's worth regarding orange peel, I never got much out of dried peel.  However last night I added the thinnest peeled and julienned skins from 2 navel oranges to my 10 gallons of Saison.  The aroma and oils that were received were humongous.  I pitched direct and swirled the fermenters.  I'm hoping for a great aroma and flavor on the finished end.

[positiveContact]

For what it's worth regarding orange peel, I never got much out of dried peel.  However last night I added the thinnest peeled and julienned skins from 2 navel oranges to my 10 gallons of Saison.  The aroma and oils that were received were humongous.  I pitched direct and swirled the fermenters.  I'm hoping for a great aroma and flavor on the finished end.

 

I have the dried orange peel already.  I thought it was noticeable when I used it in the past but maybe I was tasting coriander.  if it doesn't work out I could always try fresh after the fact (dry peeling?) or maybe that mccormic orange extract could be another option.

[neddles]

I made mine yesterday. Weird brew day for me but everything pretty much worked out and fermentation is kicking in hard right now. 

[positiveContact]

I made mine yesterday. Weird brew day for me but everything pretty much worked out and fermentation is kicking in hard right now. 

 

damn!  I didn't know you were getting on this so fast.  your feedback will be invaluable.  you should be drinking this before I actually brew it.

[positiveContact]

so just to get things rolling - what did you decide on for the recipe?

[neddles]

damn!  I didn't know you were getting on this so fast.

Me either. My wife hasn't been happy with the hoppy beers I keep making lately so when she said "make me a saison, something similar to Hennepin." I happily obeyed. She doesn't like American hops. (broken)

 

so just to get things rolling - what did you decide on for the recipe?

 

First brew in a while that didn't quite go as planned. There are about 15 things I could have done better but in the end I think everything will be fine. My efficiency was higher than expected…mostly because I accidentally set my expectations too low. So pre-boil I was 4 pts. high, not a big deal. Decided to make up for it by adding less sugar at the end of the boil. But somehow my post-boil volume was about 1/3 gallon too high. Way off. Not really sure how that happened. I am usually pretty spot on with my post boil volume. But the sugar had already been added by the time I measured that. Anyhow I ended up racking 5.5 gallons (my normal fermentor volume) into the carboy @1.063. So I will end up adding back toward the end of fermentation the sugar (11ozs.) that I withheld at the end of the boil to get my OG of 1.069. IBU may be slightly effected though. Probably not a big deal I am guessing.

 

6 gallons

OG 1.069

IBU 25

SRM 3.5

 

75% Dingeman's Pils

12% GW 2-Row

13% Sucrose

Mash 90min. at 153F

 

11g Gr. Magnum @90min

20g. Czech Saaz @15min

 

@10 min….

6g Coriander (finely ground)

6g Sweet Orange Peel

0.7g Grains of Paradise (finely ground)

0.9g Dried Ginger Root (finely ground)

 

Big starter of WY 3726

…68F for the first 24hrs. and then rising after that. Probably finish at 75F-78F.

Edited by nettles, 30 March 2015 - 02:34 PM.

[positiveContact]

is that a cool fermentation for that yeast?  I'm thinking of keeping the temps not too high during my ferment.  I don't find Hennepin to have very extreme saison like flavors.

[neddles]

is that a cool fermentation for that yeast?  I'm thinking of keeping the temps not too high during my ferment.  I don't find Hennepin to have very extreme saison like flavors.

Probably. I haven't used this yeast before. I tend to start all my saisons around 68F for 24hrs. and then gradually dial it up from there. I agree that Hennepin has a less pronounced yeast character than many other saisons. I'm not really expecting the yeast profile in this beer to be all that Hennepin like. If I were really trying to clone it I would have either grown up yeast from a Rare Vos bottle or used WY1388. And maybe I'll do that next time.

[positiveContact]

Probably. I haven't used this yeast before. I tend to start all my saisons around 68F for 24hrs. and then gradually dial it up from there. I agree that Hennepin has a less pronounced yeast character than many other saisons. I'm not really expecting the yeast profile in this beer to be all that Hennepin like. If I were really trying to clone it I would have either grown up yeast from a Rare Vos bottle or used WY1388. And maybe I'll do that next time.

 

that's a good point to remember.  I'm already making a pretty big compromise just by using the belle saison yeast.  since I have not used it do you have a recommended temp profile to get it in the ballpark of Hennepin in terms of fruit and spice flavors?

[neddles]

that's a good point to remember. I'm already making a pretty big compromise just by using the belle saison yeast. since I have not used it do you have a recommended temp profile to get it in the ballpark of Hennepin in terms of fruit and spice flavors?

I dont have a temp rec. because Ive never used Belle before. My understanding is that it is closest to WY3711 and will ferment like a mutha. WY3711 can be pretty clean when fermented cool and with O2 and lower gravity IME. I have never used 3711 higher than about 1.052. There are several others here who have used Belle so hopfully they have something to offer here.

[positiveContact]

I dont have a temp rec. because Ive never used Belle before. My understanding is that it is closest to WY3711 and will ferment like a mutha. WY3711 can be pretty clean when fermented cool and with O2 and lower gravity IME. I have never used 3711 higher than about 1.052. There are several others here who have used Belle so hopfully they have something to offer here.

 

my mistake - I thought you were one of the people that had used it.

[positiveContact]

so I was able to get GOP at the LHBS.  $2 for 2g!  whatever though - a small price to pay for beer

 

so how is this beer going for you nettles?

[neddles]

so I was able to get GOP at the LHBS.  $2 for 2g!  whatever though - a small price to pay for beer

 

so how is this beer going for you nettles?

It was 1.009 and tasting very promising as of 3 days ago. Sample had a really nice peppery finish to it. My guess is that is was yeast derived but having some GOP in there could bring a little pepperiness too.  Probably going to keg it today.

[positiveContact]

It was 1.009 and tasting very promising as of 3 days ago. Sample had a really nice peppery finish to it. My guess is that is was yeast derived but having some GOP in there could bring a little pepperiness too.  Probably going to keg it today.

 

picking up any coriander or orange or ginger?