57 replies to this topic

[HVB]

Stir plate? 48-hours with zero activity doesn't seem right to me.

Agree,  I gave up the stir plate and I still have plenty activity in that time.  I realize this was older yeast but I would start to be concerned.

[Big Nake]

I guess I don't remember the last time I tried to restart an older yeast (about a year here) where there was NO nutrient pack (as in Wyeast). In the past if I had yeast this old in a Wyeast pack, I would smack it, wait until it swelled and THEN make the starter and have good activity in 24-36 hours. But that swelling period might take 5-6 days. Here, there was no 5-6 day nutrient phase so this is sort of new to me. I don't use a lot of White Labs anymore and this is the first starter I have made with an Omega pack of yeast (again, no nutrient pack in there). This is why I'm not panicking. Yet.

[neddles]

48 hrs for yeast that is almost a year old seems pretty normal to me.

[Big Nake]

I'll also say that this yeast looked and smelled very good. It was not dark, off-smelling or any of that. I'm hoping that I wake up tomorrow morning and it's starting to take off.

[Big Nake]

Okay, no activity this morning so I'm going to change my thinking a little. I concluded that the most important thing here is to be able to use this yeast and if it takes a little longer to wake up, that's fine. Brewing this weekend is not as important as getting this yeast running. If it wakes up overnight tonight I'll brew tomorrow. Otherwise I'll wait and just crash it and decant it and brew next week. I don't want to add another yeast strain to the starter and I could use S-189 and brew TODAY but that's also a lower priority. I will be extra cautious if the yeast wakes up to make sure that it smells okay. If it doesn't wake up at all... that would truly be a first for me.

[Big Nake]

OH MY GOD! IT'S ALIVE! There is a small amount of foam on top of this starter and I think I can brew tomorrow. Happy day! Happy day.

[neddles]

No step up?

[Big Nake]

No step up?

Nope, never. Hell, I used to make lager starters with 650ml of water and ½ cup of DME and everyone told me I was doing it wrong and yet my lagers came out just fine. Eventually I gave in and started going 2L with 7 ounces of DME and using that. The beers have been coming out just fine this way but they were coming out just fine with my smaller starters too. Remember that most of my beers are < 5% too.



Note the pack of brewtan that Chils sent me in the background. This starter will be rocking by tomorrow morning and will be pitched into some good pilsnery wort.

[neddles]

Id be a scaredy cat about it but If you routinely get tasty beer without the step then why bother.

[Big Nake]

Id be a scaredy cat about it but If you routinely get tasty beer without the step then why bother.

Some of my best beers were first-run yeast (right from the starter) and all (or most) of the 2L starter poured into the primary. When this thing got active yesterday I took a sniff and it smelled good. I will give it the sniff test one more time before I pitch and if I sense anything off I will pivot in the direction of S-189 but that does not appear necessary at this point. Also, this thing was rocking so hard when I went to bed that I woke up at 3:20am envisioning it overflowing the flask. I got up & checked and it was fine. Oh the homebrewer's obsessions.

[denny]

Id be a scaredy cat about it but If you routinely get tasty beer without the step then why bother.

 

You just need to take the leap of faith.  I do 1 qt. SNS starters for most lagers and they turn out great.

[neddles]

You just need to take the leap of faith.  I do 1 qt. SNS starters for most lagers and they turn out great.

It's the age of that packet that would worry me most.

 

Also, iirc you are pitching a room temp 1qt. SNS into cold 50º+/- wort successfully, correct?

[Big Nake]

Update: The starter was really rocking. I did put it in the fridge for about 45 mins before I pitched it. Brewday went smoothly and the all signs point to the fact that this is the same yeast as the 2352... it's got a very distinct aroma. I transferred the wort to the primary, oxygenated and then poured the entire starter into the primary and it smelled like beer heaven. OUTSTANDING AROMA! So I'm very happy that the yeast came alive, got very active and seemed to be the yeast that I thought it was. I mentioned in the 30m boil thread that these hops I picked up from one of my LHBSs were also super-fresh, vibrant green and smelled great going into the boil. Everything looks and smells great. The only mild mods I made was a half ounce of Magnum to bitter (IBUs for the bittering charge went from 16 to 20) and my open bag of Vienna only had 2 pounds in it so this beer also has a pound of Munich 1 as well. It's in the fridge and I'm very positive about the potential here. Cheers.

EDIT: This yeast will definitely see a proper Munich Helles and a proper Munich Dunkel. I may also make the Festbier/Ofest that I made which was 50% pils and 50% Munich 2 and just one hop addition to about 25 IBUs.

[neddles]

That all sounds awesome. I really liked the beers I made with 2352 last year as well so I am looking forward to your final thoughts on this Bayern strain.

[denny]

It's the age of that packet that would worry me most.

 

Also, iirc you are pitching a room temp 1qt. SNS into cold 50º+/- wort successfully, correct?

 

correct.

[Big Nake]

This stuff is already bubbling. The starter was so active that it seems like the whole primary is taking off. Cheers kids.

[Poptop]

Something to be said in saying, "Never say die." Well done.

[Big Nake]

Something to be said in saying, "Never say die." Well done.

With some patience, most yeast within a year or so old will come back. That said, I have opened packs of liquid yeast that smelled foul and looked unusual (they got dark) and I did not use them. Over the weekend I took a yeast inventory. I have this Omega Bayern and some 1056 running now. I have some Omega West Coast Ale that is new. I have 2308 and 2278 that are both about 8 months old. I have some S-04 and S-189 which are new and I have some White Labs 840 American Lager yeast that has a "best by" date of JUL 2016 so that one is questionable. But under all of that I have a platinum strain from White Labs that I bought and never used... WLP060 Munich Helles with a date of 2012!